▶ Watch Video: 7/10: Harris, Youngkin, Holder

On this “Face the Nation” broadcast moderated by Robert Costa:

  • Vice President Kamala Harris
  • Gov. Glenn Youngkin, Republican of Virginia
  • Rep. Jamie Raskin, Democrat of Maryland
  • Alex Holder, documentarian

Click here to browse full transcripts of “Face the Nation.”  

ROBERT COSTA: I’m Robert Costa in Washington.

And this week on Face the Nation: Supporters of abortion rights push for more action from the Biden administration and Congress. And the midterm campaign ramps up.

(Begin VT)


PROTESTERS: My choice!

(End VT)

ROBERT COSTA: Outside the White House, frustration over abortion rights intensifies, amid growing confusion over where and how women can safely get abortions.

President Biden’s executive order seeking to expand and strengthen access can only go so far. His solution, this November’s elections.

(Begin VT)

JOE BIDEN (President of the United States): What we’re witnessing wasn’t a constitutional judgment. It was an exercise in raw political power.

We need two additional pro-choice senators and a pro-choice House to codify Roe as federal law. Your vote can make that a reality.

(End VT)

ROBERT COSTA: We sat down with Vice President Kamala Harris. She will outline the administration’s strategy on abortion rights and more.

(Begin VT)

ROBERT COSTA: Finish this sentence for me: Americans need to vote for Democrats in November because?

KAMALA HARRIS (Vice President of the United States): Our democracy is on the ballot, truly.

(End VT)

ROBERT COSTA: Do Republicans see it differently? We will talk with a rising star in the GOP, Virginia Governor Glenn Youngkin, a businessman who won in an upset last November.

We will preview this week’s January 6 hearings with Maryland Congressman Jamie Raskin.

Finally, a look at the documentary shot behind the scenes during the final weeks of the Trump administration.

(Begin VT)

DONALD TRUMP (Former President of the United States): It’s not even a contest, but you still need a judge that has courage. And, so far, we haven’t found that judge.

(End VT)

ROBERT COSTA: It’s all just ahead on Face the Nation.

Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation. Margaret is out today.

Last week, we witnessed a series of shocking events around the world. After refusing to resign for months, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson finally succumbed to political pressure and quit. In Japan, a country with some of the toughest gun laws in the world, former Prime Minister Shinzo Abe was shot and killed during a campaign event.

Here at home, seven people were shot and killed and dozens injured while watching a Fourth of July parade in Highland Park, a suburb of Chicago. So far this year, in the U.S., there have been 327 mass shootings, 12 of them since that shooting a week ago.

Vice President Kamala Harris visited Highland Park just after the shooting. We sat down with her in her ceremonial office on Friday. And that’s where our conversation began.

(Begin VT)

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: When you meet with first responders, when you meet with families of these victims, you cannot avoid the reality of what the impact of this gun violence is on a community, on families, on people who — who love their community, who love their family member, and assault weapons.

So let’s just go right to that, assault weapons. Assault weapons were specifically and intentionally designed to kill a lot of human beings quickly. It is a weapon of war. If you’ve ever looked at, if I may be so blunt, an autopsy photograph to see what it does to the human body, and the fact that we can’t get Congress to renew.

It’s not like we’re pulling something out of our hat — we’ve done it before as a nation — to renew the assault weapons ban is outrageous. And you can support the Second Amendment. I support the Second Amendment. But we should agree we should not have weapons of war on the streets of America.

ROBERT COSTA: Why do so many mass shooters, often young men radicalized online, seem to still have access legally to weapons and to slip past red flag laws, like those in Illinois?

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: Because those weapons are available. And we have to stop allowing those weapons to be available to civilians living in communities of people who have a right to believe that they are not in a war zone.

ROBERT COSTA: President Biden issued an executive order…


ROBERT COSTA: … on abortion seeking to expand and bolster access.


ROBERT COSTA: But so many Democrats in this country remain very angry about the recent Supreme Court decision.


ROBERT COSTA: California Governor Gavin Newsom said this in May:

(Begin VT)

GOVERNOR GAVIN NEWSOM (D-California): Where is the Democratic Party? Where’s the party? Why aren’t we calling this out? This is a concerted, coordinated effort. And, yes, they’re winning.

(End VT)

ROBERT COSTA: Is he right?

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: I think all of us share a deep sense of outrage that the United States Supreme Court took a constitutional right that was recognized, took it from the women of America.

I mean, sit back and think about that for a moment. The highest court in our land just took a constitutional right that was recognized for women to make decisions about their own bodies. And so now we are looking at a situation where the government can tell a person in our country what they can and cannot do with their own body.

You don’t have to agree that you want to or would advocate that you or a loved one would have an abortion to agree that the government should not be making that decision for any individual woman.

ROBERT COSTA: Did Democrats fail, past Democratic presidents, congressional leaders, to not codify Roe v. Wade over the past five decades?

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: I do believe that we should have rightly believed, but we certainly believed that certain issues are just settled. Certain issues are just settled.

ROBERT COSTA: Clearly were not.


And that’s why I do believe that we are living, sadly, in real unsettled times. There’s another example of this point, voting rights. The fundamental principle of our democracy is, everyone should have access, who are entitled, to have access to vote.

And now you see states across the country that are intentionally making it more difficult for people to vote. We thought that was settled. We thought that was settled at least by law in the ’60s.

We look now at the issue of choice. We thought that was settled.

ROBERT COSTA: What will this administration do to try to codify Roe, to try to through Congress put into law some of these priorities?

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: What we will do through the executive branch to ensure that women have the ability to travel freely, unencumbered, that women will have access to the medication, but we also need Congress to act, because that branch of government is where we actually codify, which means put into law the rights that, again, we took for granted, but clearly have now been taken from the women of America.

We’ve seen this in the past, if you think about the Voting Rights Act.


VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: Congress acted. Civil Rights Act, Congress acted, because where there was any question, especially through the courts or any other system, about the sanctity of these rights, we decided as a nation we would put it into law. That’s what we need to do with Roe and the principles behind Roe.

ROBERT COSTA: Some senators have suggested that Justice Gorsuch, Justice Kavanaugh misled them during the confirmation hearings on Roe v. Wade.

Some Democrats have even called for those justices to be impeached. Do you believe they should be impeached?

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: I start from the point of experience of having served in the Senate.

I never believed them. I didn’t believe them. It’s why I voted against. And…

ROBERT COSTA: So, what now, though?

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: We need to understand that states are passing laws because of what the Supreme Court has now allowed to happen.

So what does this mean? It means that we’re looking at elections coming up in 120-something days.


VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: They’re going to be about who serves in Congress, and we need a pro-choice Congress.

Again, you don’t have to advocate or believe that this is right for you or your family, but don’t let the government make the decision for her family, whoever she may be.


VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: It means state offices, governors, secretaries of state, attorneys general. It means local races. Who’s going to be your DA, who’s going to be your sheriff enforcing laws that are being passed to criminalize medical health providers, and maybe even the women who seek the service?

ROBERT COSTA: Basketball star Brittney Griner…


ROBERT COSTA: … she remains imprisoned in Russia. You and President Biden spoke with Cherelle Griner, her wife.


ROBERT COSTA: You reassured her. But what kind of reassurance is possible now? She has pled guilty. Is a prisoner swap on the table?

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: We take very seriously — and we’ve been very clear — Brittany Griner. And there are sadly other Americans who are being unlawfully detained around the world.

And it is on our highest priority list to bring those folks home. I can’t talk to you about the details what’s happening behind the scenes, but I can tell you that it is one of our highest priorities to bring these Americans home.

ROBERT COSTA: We’re just months away from the midterm elections.

Finish this sentence for me. Americans need to vote for Democrats in November because?

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: Our democracy is on the ballot, truly, truly.

If you look at an issue like choice, it’s on the ballot, a woman’s right to make decisions about her own body and potentially what can happen in the not-too-distant future around issues like access to and making decisions about contraception or same-sex marriage.

Elections matter. The people who are elected, especially to the United States Congress, will decide the outcome of all of these issues, voting rights. The ability of us to pass voting rights legislation, the John Lewis Voting Rights Act, the Freedom to Vote Act, will be a function of who is in Congress.

ROBERT COSTA: When I go around the country as a reporter and I talk to Black Americans, they bring up voting rights. They also bring up police reform.


ROBERT COSTA: And they say, two years after George Floyd was killed, you have Jayland Walker in Ohio…


ROBERT COSTA: … 60 wounds from police officers. And…


ROBERT COSTA: Sixty gunshots.


ROBERT COSTA: Gun violence still killing Black Americans from police officers.


ROBERT COSTA: Polls, though, show that support for this administration among Black Americans has softened. How will you turn that around?

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: Black Americans, Americans in general should be demanding, and rightly, that we pass legislation that addresses these issues that you have mentioned.

I was an author of the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act. I believe very strongly that we should have accountability in all systems, including in policing.

ROBERT COSTA: But they’re frustrated police reform has stalled.


I mean, but, again, there is a connection between what we are — what we want to have happen and the power of Congress to actually make it happen, when it comes to changing the laws, when it comes to writing and then putting, in effect, laws that create accountability and greater fairness in our system, be it our criminal justice system, be it our health care delivery system, all of that.

But I will say this. What we have also seen is that Black Americans and all Americans said — look at the United States Supreme Court. There has never in the history of that court been a Black woman to serve. There now is, because people stood in line in 2020 for hours demanding that, of the things that they would stand in line to see happen, there would be a Ketanji Brown Jackson on the United States — Justice — excuse me — Ketanji Brown Jackson on the United States Supreme Court.

So, there are demands that were made by voters, saying these are the things we want out of this administration. And a lot of those demands have been met in the first year-and-a-half. There’s still more work to do, without any question.

ROBERT COSTA: Up on Capitol Hill, there is speculation among some Democrats and some Republicans that President Biden won’t run for reelection in 2024.

What’s your message to those who say that?

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: Listen to President Biden. He intends to run. And, if he does, I intend to run with him.



ROBERT COSTA: Another run by former President Trump is possible. He is signaling that. Would that make it more likely that the president runs?



ROBERT COSTA: Another issue is immigration.

Texas Governor Greg Abbott this week authorized state officials there to arrest migrants and take them to federal border crossing facilities. And he’s blamed the administration for the immigration issue in his state. He’s called it a — quote — “invasion.”

What will the administration do about Governor Abbott’s decision in the migrant issue?

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: I would suggest that so-called leaders focus on solutions, instead of attacks, if they really are concerned about a problem.

And that includes on the issue of immigration, passing a pathway for citizenship, fixing what, in particular under the prior administration, was a badly broken system, so that we can have a humane and appropriate approach to this issue, including, of course, what we will continue to do in terms of prioritizing border security, but understanding we also need to create a pathway.

And that’s where I think everyone should be focused, if they’re actually concerned about solutions instead of flamethrowing.

ROBERT COSTA: Vice President Harris, thank you very much for taking the time.

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: You’re welcome. Thank you. It’s good to be with you, Bob.

ROBERT COSTA: Good to be with you.

(End VT)

ROBERT COSTA: Our full interview with Vice President Harris can be seen on our Web site and on our YouTube channel.

Face the Nation will be back in one minute. Stay with us.


ROBERT COSTA: We turn now to the Republican Party.

Virginia Governor Glenn Youngkin is a newcomer to politics who won in an upset last November.

We want to welcome Governor Youngkin to the broadcast.

Good morning, Governor.

Let’s begin with the Supreme Court and abortion. You just heard from Vice President Harris. She said, you don’t have to abandon your faith to believe that a woman should have the ability to decide whether she gets an abortion or not.

Do you agree?

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN (R-Virginia): Well, first of all, good morning, and thank you for having me.

And the debate on abortion has been raging for a long time. And I believe, as a pro-life governor, that life begins at conception. And my job as a pro-life governor in a state in Virginia, where, 18 months ago, the debate in our General Assembly was around whether abortion should be allowed all the way up through and including birth, funded by taxpayer money.

And so this in Virginia is a debate that we are going to run to. The Supreme Court’s decision, I agree with, that this is a decision for states to make by elected officials by the citizens of Virginia

And that’s why, right out of the box, I called for a 15-week pain threshold bill to be formed and crafted by a bipartisan group of legislators. I think this is what it’s all about is, this is a moment for our country to have a discussion around this. And each state will decide something different. And I think that’s the — that’s the real value of the Supreme Court’s decision.

ROBERT COSTA: You’ve said you’ve proposed a 15-week ban. Will you ever pursue a full ban on abortion in Virginia?

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: Well, the reality is that, as a pro-life governor in a state like Virginia, where I have a Senate that’s controlled by Democrats and a House that’s controlled by Republicans, we have to find a way to get things done.

And I believe that’s what we’ve been able to do, is get things done at a time where you have to bring people together in order to make progress. As I said, I believe life begins at conception. In Virginia, we’ve got to work with a Senate and a House. This is what we’ve been doing.

ROBERT COSTA: But will you ever pursue a full ban?

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: Well, I believe that what my job is, is to get something done.

And I believe we can get a 15-week pain threshold bill done in Virginia for the first time. Think about it. This was a state, again, that just 18 months ago was talking about enabling abortion all the way up through and including birth. And now we’re able to talk about a 15-week pain threshold bill, where a baby feels pain.

This is a remarkable moment for us. And it’s an opportunity I’m not going to let go.

ROBERT COSTA: You support exceptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother. Some other Republican governors do not, Republicans. Are they wrong?

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: Again, I think this is a moment where we have to reflect on our personal beliefs.

And as a pro-life governor, I have really reflected on my own faith and my beliefs. And I do believe that there should be exceptions that are made in the case of rape and incest and when the life of the mother is truly at risk.

Again, this is a moment, though, where people have to come together. The one thing that’s very much agreed upon in Virginia today is that we want fewer abortions, not more. And I think this is a chance over the next five months for a bipartisan group of legislators to craft a path there and give me a bill that I can sign.

ROBERT COSTA: On education, one of your first actions as governor was to propose the end of teaching of — quote — “inherently divisive concepts.”

What’s an example?

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: Well, in Virginia schools — and we saw Loudoun County literally be ground zero.

We saw students being taught that they should view everything through a lens of race and judge one another. And, again, we’re not talking about forgetting our history. And, in fact, one of the things we have to do is teach all of our history, the good and the bad.

But we shouldn’t — we shouldn’t play — we shouldn’t play privilege bingo with children. We shouldn’t teach children that they should judge one another, and one group is privileged and another group is going to find it hard in life necessarily. And we shouldn’t blame someone and have them form a view that they’re inherently racist because of their race or their sex or their religion.

We shouldn’t judge one another. We can do this. And so, right out of the box, we worked in order to remove inherently divisive concepts from curriculum. We absolutely — we absolutely are pushing to teach all history, the good and the bad. And, again, we can bring people together around this, as opposed to divide them.

ROBERT COSTA: It’s a challenge, though. You say Virginia is willing to teach all history. Suppose your Board of Education comes to you, Governor, and says to you, Governor, the Civil War, we recommend it’s too divisive. We want to call it the war between the states.

What would you do?

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: Well, I don’t think they’re going to do that.

ROBERT COSTA: So they could.

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: But I don’t believe they will.

And I think what we all recognize is that slavery was an absolute — was an absolute black spot in our history. I mean, it is so, so abhorrent. We have to teach it. And this is not a moment where we’re running away from these topics. And this is why I’m so excited about our education agenda in Virginia. I mean, we stepped into our day-one game plan with a comprehensive education plan to have the highest education budget in the history of Virginia, to fund special ed programs, to fund into laboratory schools to provide choice, to give teachers raises.

And we got it all done, all of it. That’s what’s so exciting is that we brought people together around an education agenda which is common-sense- focused. And, again, I believe that there’s certain groups that want to drive people apart. And my job is to pull them together around a vision for education that can deliver for our states.

ROBERT COSTA: Security is also an issue in your state. We’ve been talking about the Supreme Court. Some of those justices live in Virginia.

Do you have confidence the justices who live in Virginia are adequately protected?

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: Our judges in — our judges in Virginia are adequately protected. I wish we could do more.

And this is why I have called on Attorney General Garland to enforce the federal law, which is so clear. You can’t parade and picket in front of the judge’s home and try to influence them. And I have been — and I have been consistent in calling on him to please enforce the law.

We have substantial state resources positioned right around from the justices’ homes. I speak to them frequently to make sure that they feel adequately protected. And I’m encouraged by those conversations. This is not a moment where we can allow anything to happen to our justices. Broadly speaking, this is about democracy.

ROBERT COSTA: On the court, the court is moving right now on several different fronts. It could move on same-sex marriage in the coming years. Will you take any steps to codify same-sex marriage in Virginia?

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: Well, I believe that what the Supreme Court has done most recently is so consistent with what we know the Constitution stands for, which is returning the rights to states to make these decisions like Roe v. Wade, protecting, in fact, the right of lawmakers to make laws, not an executive branch to pass rules and regulations that overstep boundaries.

This is what our Supreme Court has — has been so focused on.

ROBERT COSTA: Yes or no, though, protect same-sex marriage or not?

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: In Virginia — we actually do protect same-sex marriage in Virginia. That’s the law in Virginia And, therefore, as Governor of Virginia, we protect same-sex marriage.

I think what’s happening in — right now is that there are so many — there’s so many elements that are trying to pull people apart. And we have a chance to hold them together.


ROBERT COSTA: Governor, we’ll be right back.

We need to take a break for a moment, but we’ve got a lot more to ask Governor Youngkin.

And we will be right back.


ROBERT COSTA: If you can’t watch the full Face the Nation, you can set your DVR. We’re available on demand.

Plus, you can watch us through our CBS or Paramount+ app. And we’re replayed on our CBS News Streaming Network at noon Eastern.


ROBERT COSTA: We will be right back with more from Governor Youngkin, plus January 6 Committee member Jamie Raskin and more.

Stay with us.



We want to continue our conversation with Virginia Republican Governor Glenn Youngkin.

Governor Youngkin, you were just in Nebraska on Saturday speaking to Republicans across the country. You have also said President Biden was legitimately elected. Former President Trump continues to falsely claim the 2020 election was stolen. Should he stop saying that?

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: Well, let me begin with my trip to Nebraska, which was really great fun. Governor Rickets had really helped me in my race, and it was a great chance for me to show up and help in the next race to elect a Republican in Nebraska.

And one of the things that I’m really focused on is helping Republican governors get elected. You know, I’ve got a big job in Virginia, and it takes the – it takes the vast majority of my time. But I do think there’s spots that I can be helpful. And so I plan on doing that this year.

Of course, the other thing we plan on doing this year is helping congressional wins in Virginia. And I think there’s a great opportunity there.

ROBERT COSTA: Well, what about former President Trump?

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: Well, I think this is a moment for the Republican Party to recognize exactly what I recognized last year, was this is not a or moment but an and moment. I mean we brought together Virginians last near, forever Trumpers, never Trumpers, independents, Democrats. We won the – we won the Latino vote, the Asian vote, the largest voter turn-out for black Virginians that anybody can remember to vote for Republican. I mean I think this is the future of the Republican Party, which is to recognize that we have to come together in these common sense, kitchen table issues that are on the forefront of everybody’s mind, inflation, schools, safe communities, an economy that isn’t stealing everybody’s hard working money through inflation but gives them a job. This is what the Republicans —

ROBERT COSTA: So, stop talking about 2020.

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: This is the Republicans who – that we can win.

ROBERT COSTA: So, former President Trump should stop talking about it?

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: I think — what I did last year was I focused on 2021. And we had 5,000 people come and volunteer at elections, and that gave everybody confidence in our election process. They showed up. They voted in record numbers for the governor’s race, and we won.

ROBERT COSTA: The January 6th committee continues its work this week. Some members of the committee believe the former president has criminal wrongdoing. There have been many revolutions made by this committee. What do you believe you should do in the wake of all of this new evidence, can you continue to support someone like President Trump?

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: Well, let me begin with, what happened on January 6th with the – with the invasion of our Capitol was awful. And it’s a blight on our democracy.

I have to be honest, though, I talk to thousands of Virginians and the topics they want to talk about are not January 6th. What they want to talk about is run-away inflation, gas prices. They want to talk about crime in their communities. They want to talk about education and the rights of parents to be engaged in their kids’ schools.

I just fundamentally believe that the media’s attention on this, while – while I think it’s important to the media, is really not what voters are focused on.

ROBERT COSTA: Well, but look – but – it’s not just – it’s not just the media. Some Republican governors, like Governor Larry Hogan of Maryland, have said President Trump shouldn’t run again. Is that your view?

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: President Trump’s going to do what President Trump wants to do. And my job is to have the best Virginia we can have and to demonstrate that Republican agenda, on low taxes and great schools and safe communities and, by the way, a thriving economy that’s working with companies like Boeing and Raytheon moving to Virginia, this is the Republican agenda of the future. And this is the one that I think we’re delivering in Virginia and I think this is the one that’s going to really carry a red wave across the nation this year.

ROBERT COSTA: So that – so that’s — that’s your agenda. That’s your focus. You also have political capital. You are a rising star in the Republican Party. Every reporter wants to know how you use that political capital.

You have a political action committee that’s busy right now. Will you support and spend money through your PAC to help candidates like Doug Mastriano, the election denier who’s running for governor in Pennsylvania on the Republican side?

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: Well, I believe what I can do with – with our supporters is, first, get congressional representatives elected in Virginia. First and foremost. I think the road to the majority in our House of Representatives comes through Virginia. And I’m going to spend – I’m going to spend real time there making sure that we win those elections.

And then I believe there are governors’ elections around the country where I think I can make a difference.

ROBERT COSTA: Is Mastriano’s one of them?

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: Well, I have a huge job in Virginia, and so I’ve got to be real careful in how much I spend time out of Virginia. We’re still working on my agenda. But I think there are states, like Virginia, where people recognize that a Democratic governor has not done a good job and a Republican governor, like the Republican governors all over America, can do a good job. And those are the ones that I’m going to go support. We haven’t figured out where I’m going yet. But, at the end of the day, I’m going to help some Republican governors get elected.

ROBERT COSTA: When you look at a map, Nebraska right next to Iowa, the early voting state in the 2024 presidential election. Are you open, and your family, to considering a run for president in 2024?

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: First, I am hugely humbled by this discussion that’s going on.

ROBERT COSTA: So donors have come to you.

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: And the reality, of course, is, I think it’s based on the fact that I won in a state that was blue and we turned it red. I ran on a platform that we’re delivering. And I often find it shocking that people are surprised that a person runs for office and then goes to work to deliver on what they promised they were going to do. And so I think my job is to be a great governor in Virginia.

ROBERT COSTA: But are you open to considering, along with your family, the idea of a presidential run in 2024?

GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN: That’s not a decision that we have even begun to undertake. The reality, of course, is I’ve been in – I’ve been governor of Virginia for six months. We’ve got an extraordinary amount done. $4 billion tax cuts. A record budget for education. $400 million in to law enforcement to raise salaries and keep our communities safe. This is where I’m focused.

ROBERT COSTA: I didn’t – I didn’t hear you rule it out. And I hope if you make a decision you come back here and break the news with CBS.


ROBERT COSTA: Governor Youngkin, thank you so much for being here.

And we’ll be right back.


ROBERT COSTA: Former President Trump’s top White House lawyer, Pat Cipollone, talked with the January 6th committee for eight hours Friday. The committee tells us this morning that they received critical system on nearly every major topic in its investigation, reinforcing key points regarding Donald Trump’s misconduct and providing highly relevant, new information that will play a central role in its upcoming hearings.

We’re back with Maryland Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin. He will be a lead questioner in Tuesday’s January 6th committee hearing.

Good morning, Congressman. Thanks for being here.

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Delighted to be with you, Robert.

ROBERT COSTA: A rare statement from the committee characterizing Cipollone’s testimony from Friday. What will we hear Tuesday? And will it include some of Cipollone?

JAMIE RASKIN: Well, we’re going to continue the story of Donald Trump’s attempt to overthrow the 2020 presidential election. And at the last hearings we showed how lots of doors were closing on him, if not all the way at least part of the way when the state legislatures, that didn’t work for him. The Department of Justice mini coup didn’t really work for him. The attempt to get the DOJ to say that the election was corrupt had not come through. The effort to intimidate election officials like Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger in Georgia had not succeeded. But now he was turning his attention to January the 6th. And we are going to get to use a lot of Mr. Cipollone’s testimony to corroborate other things we’ve learned along the way. He was the White House council at the time. He was aware of every major move, I think, that Donald Trump was making to try to overthrow the 2020 election and essentially seize the presidency. And so I considered his testimony valuable (ph).

ROBERT COSTA: So, we’ll see him perhaps on video or part of his testimony excerpted. But who will we have in the hearing room as live witnesses?

JAMIE RASKIN: Well, one of the things that people are going to learn is the fundamental importance of a meeting that took place in the White House on December the 18th. And on that day, the group of lawyers, of outside lawyers who have been denominated team crazy by people in and around the White House, came in to try to urge several new courses of action, including the seizure of voting machines around the country.

And, so some of the people involved in that were Sydney Powell, Rudy Giuliani was around for part of that discussion. Michael Flynn was around for that. But against this team crazy were an inside group of lawyers who essentially wanted the president at that point to acknowledge that he had lost the election and were far more willing to accept the reality of his defeat at that point.

So — so there will be — there will be other witnesses coming.

ROBERT COSTA: Witnesses who were at the December 18, 2020 meeting? First- hand witnesses?

JAMIE RASKIN: No, no. There will be testimony about that, that — there will be other kinds of evidence submitted about that. But there will be other witnesses and I’m afraid I’m not authorized to disclose who those witnesses are at this point.

ROBERT COSTA: Oh, (INAUDIBLE). If anyone’s authorized, it’s you.

What about Steve Bannon, the former White House chief strategist, seems to be signaling he’s willing to come in. Do you buy it? Is it a genuine offer and will you accept it?

JAMIE RASKIN: Look, we want everyone’s testimony. We’ve talked to more than a thousand people and, to me, it vindicates the way our system of justice works and the way that our democracy works, and legislative democracy works.

ROBERT COSTA: What about Bannon?

JAMIE RASKIN: Well, I understand from reports today he’s had a change of heart. And after watching presumably all of these people come forward, you know, including Cassidy Hutchinson, you know, he’s decided that he wants to come in. And if he wants to come in, I’m certain that the committee would be very interested in hearing from him.

ROBERT COSTA: Would it — would it be closed door with Bannon or do you want to — because he could go out there and pontificate if it’s a public, live hearing.

JAMIE RASKIN: The way that we have treated every single witness is the same, that they come in, they talk to the committee. There is — if they’re going to take a deposition, they’re sworn under oath. It’s videotaped. It’s recorded. And then we take it from there.

ROBERT COSTA: Bannon was at the Willard Hotel in Washington, D.C., on the night of January 5, 2021, the eve of the insurrection. What are we going to learn from your hearing on Tuesday about the Willard Hotel, Roger Stone, also present at the Willard that night, Steve Bannon, Rudy Giuliani. Is there a real connection between those so-called war rooms, the violence outside, the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers gathering, and what was happening inside the West Wing?

JAMIE RASKIN: Well, I think your question practically answers itself. Donald Trump was, of course, the central figure who set everything into motion. He was the person, Rob, who identified January 6th as the date for the big protest. And he announced that in his tweet in the middle of the night on December 19th after a crazy meeting, one that has been described as a crazy meeting in the entire Trump presidency ended December 18th and Mark Meadows escorted Rudy Giuliani out the door. It sort of ended at that point.

And then just an hour or two later, Donald Trump sent out the tweet that would be heard around the world. The first time in American history when a president of the United States called a protest against his own government, in fact, to try to stop the counting of Electoral College votes in a presidential election he had lost.


JAMIE RASKIN: Absolutely unprecedented. Nothing like that had ever happened before. So, people are going to hear the story of that tweet and then the explosive effects it had in Trump world and specifically among the domestic violence extremist groups, the most dangerous political extremists in the country at that point.

ROBERT COSTA: What about Ginni Thomas, the spouse of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. Her lawyer now says she doesn’t want to appear. Will she ever appear before your committee?

JAMIE RASKIN: I mean, again, that’s like with Steve Bannon, I mean, the vast majority of people, young, middle-aged, old, Cassidy Hutchinson’s a great example, have done their civic duty, have done their legal duty, have done their patriotic duty and have said, I’m going to come forward and tell you everything I know and nothing but the truth and the entire truth.

ROBERT COSTA: What’s your message to her if she’s watching?

JAMIE RASKIN: So — to whom?

ROBERT COSTA: Ginni Thomas.

JAMIE RASKIN: My message to her is my message to all Americans, which is, if you have relevant information, if you are a material witness in any respect to these events, come forward and tell us what you know.

ROBERT COSTA: Can you force her hand?

JAMIE RASKIN: Again, you know, I don’t want to enter into questions and negotiations about specific witnesses.


JAMIE RASKIN: I mean it’s kind of a violation of our responsibility to the public. But we are telling everybody in the public, come forward and tell us what you know. And, you know, if you get a subpoena, I mean, a subpoena is not an invitation to a valentine’s day party. A subpoena is telling you — the world subpoena means under penalty of law. You get a subpoena. You come in.

ROBERT COSTA: When you look at your previous comments, you said these hearings would, quote, blow the roof off the house. Major hearing this week on Tuesday led by you in part. Another major hearing on Thursday. Will your statement still stand by Friday, that these hearings will blow the roof off the house?

JAMIE RASKIN: Well, not literally, certainly. But I think what I meant is that when you add all of this up together, it is the greatest political offense against the union by a president of the United States in our history. Nothing comes close to it. It — you know, the —

ROBERT COSTA: A criminal offense.

JAMIE RASKIN: The attempt — the attempt to overthrow the result of a presidential election through a political coup and the mobilization of an armed, violent mob cannot really be compared to anything else a president has done. It makes the Watergate break-in look like the work of Cub Scouts.

So I — I just hope that we’re telling everything we know in a competent and effective way to the American people because, you know, Madison said that in a democracy, the people have the right to the most awful truth, which is the truth about the nature of government and their rulers. And we need Americans to look very carefully at what happened.

ROBERT COSTA: Congressman Raskin, thank you.

The next January 6th hearing will be on Tuesday, July 12th. And you can watch it right here on CBS on our broadcast and our streaming network.

We’ll be back in a moment.


ROBERT COSTA: During the final weeks of the Trump presidency, including the day the Capitol was attack, British film maker Alex Holder had behind the scenes access to former President Trump and his inner circle as part of a documentary project. The footage his team gathered was subpoenaed by the committee probing the attack and investigators have interviewed Holder as they seek to piece together what happened.

Alex Holder’s three-part documentary series “Unprecedented” premiers today on Discovery Plus

And he is here with us this morning.

Good morning, Alex.

ALEX HOLDER, (“Unprecedented” Director): Good morning.

ROBERT COSTA: Your documentary, which I’ve watched, powerful footage of the brutal violence on January 6th. Your documentary also focuses on the Trump family in an intense way. Do they feel any culpability for what happened?

ALEX HOLDER: I mean, in my – in my interactions with them, no, not at all. I mean I think President Trump, when I interviewed him in Mar-a-Lago, he doubled down on the position. In fact, he even says that the reason why the protesters went into the Capitol on January 6th was because they had — believe that the election was stolen. Well, who told them that the election was stolen other than him?

And then with respect to his children, they declined to discuss the subject of January 6th. So, I think that their silence will be for others to determine what that really means.

ROBERT COSTA: You and your crew captured this amazing moment in January 2021 with Vice President Pence as he has to confront a decision on something most vice presidents never have to make a decision about, whether to invoke the 25th Amendment.

Let’s take a look at that moment.


ON SCREEN TEXT: Six days after certification.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I join the Senate Democrat leader on calling on the vice president to remove this president by immediately invoking the 25th Amendment.

ON SCREEN TEXT: The 25th Amendment gives the vice president, along with a majority of cabinet secretaries, the power to declare the president unfit for office.

NANCY PELOSI: If the vice president or cabinet do not act, the Congress may be prepared to move forward with impeachment.

MIKE PENCE (Vice President of the United States): Huh, it’s 7:48.

MAN: That’s when I received it. But the House members got it a while back.

ON SCREEN TEXT: During our interview, the vice president received an email with the congressional draft resolution demanding that he invoke the 25th Amendment.

MIKE PENCE: Yes. Excellent. Tell Zach (ph) to print me off a hard copy for the trip home.

MAN: Sure. Sure.


I’m always hopeful about America. I always believe that America’s best days are yet to come. And I still believe that.


ROBERT COSTA: What did you witness behind the scenes that day that you may have shared with the January 6th committee that we didn’t see?

ALEX HOLDER: Well, I mean, that day was pretty extraordinary. And this is about six days or so after the events of January the 6th. We’re now in the White House in the OEOB (ph). Soi this is the ceremonial room for the vice president. And we saw things in the corridors of desks that was sort of, you know, upended and chairs outside because they were obviously moving out for the new administration. There was this sort of really dower, quite, sort of depressed mood in the building at that time. And some of the aids around the vice president as well were also, you know, talking quietly, whispering. Things were, you know, just — it was a very uncomfortable situation. And then the vice president walks in, he sits down and this is, I mean, on that day he was probably the most famous man in the world because this was all about the 25th Amendment and whether or not he was actually going to invoke this procedure.

So, it was an extraordinary day. And he sits down in the chair, and his aid hands him over his phone. And myself and a lot our director of photography saw that it was from the speaker’s office. And we captured this extraordinary moment. And also the aftermath of it as well.

So, it was — we were walking in history all the way through this entire process of making this documentary. And I hope people, you know, tune in and watch it and see these incredible moments unfold.

ROBERT COSTA: You were walking through history. You were with the Trump family again and again. And you cast them as a family that’s also a brand and it’s a brand that cannot accept defeat. Do you believe the former president will run again?

ALEX HOLDER: Oh, I don’t know whether or not he’ll run again. I mean I —

ROBERT COSTA: But you’ve been up close with him.

ALEX HOLDER: I mean I think, you know, he tends to not do the same thing twice when he fails. And I think the reason for that, and this is what the series shows, is that it’s all about the brand. It’s all about the word “Trump.” And the association of the word “Trump” to failure is something that he can’t accept and his kids can’t accept. So, the idea that it may happen again, that he might fail again is something that would be something that he could not accept. So, maybe he might take the risk, maybe he won’t take the risk, we’ll see. I mean he says we’ll see, so.

ROBERT COSTA: You spoke to former President Trump about democracy. What did that conversation reveal to you?

ALEX HOLDER: Well, I don’t think he really understands what that really means. I mean when I was sitting in front of him in the White House on, you know, sort of four or five days after his own attorney general has said there’s no evidence to support his claims of election malfeasance and he’s giving me all these different reasons as to why there actually is election issues and how we need to intervene and we need to sort of get brave and courageous judges. I mean, this isn’t a man who really sort of fully understands what it means to be — what democracy actually really means.

ROBERT COSTA: You’ve probably spent more time with Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump and Ivanka Trump than almost anyone else outside of that family. Do you believe they are angling to continue the Trump brand politically and run for office, if not in 2024, at some point in the future? You know them.

ALEX HOLDER: I mean I wouldn’t be surprised if they do. I mean, Don Jr. certainly came across, at least in my interactions with him, and I think in the series people will see that he does have an interest in politics for sure, and he goes into sort of the background of where his political awakening comes from, which is pretty interesting.

I think Eric maybe not as much. And Ivanka we’ll see as well. But I think that they’re – but, ultimately, with these — with this family and what the series shows is this sort of — the dynamic, the sort of succession and vibe, the dynamic between the three children and the relationship they have with their father and vice versa.

ROBERT COSTA: Alex Holder, thank you so much for coming by. We appreciate it.

ALEX HOLDER: A pleasure. Thank you very much.

ROBERT COSTA: Thank you.

And we will be right back.


ROBERT COSTA: That’s it for us today. Thanks for watching.

Don’t forget, if you can’t watch us live, be sure to set your DVRs and watch us later.

And Margaret will be back next week.

For FACE THE NATION, I’m Robert Costa.